Episode Transcript
Episode 15 (00:00)
Welcome back to another edition of Unleashed Athletics with Brian Bonn. I'm your host, Brian Bonn, and we are moving it along. We had a great episode last week with Justin Dillard, and that was the first time we brought on a guest and this week we bring on coach Greg Copeland from Chaparral High School in Denver, Colorado. He is the cross country coach, a good friend of mine and man.
Greg Coplen (00:12)
I'm going to go ahead and start the presentation. So I'm going to start with the first question.
Episode 15 (00:28)
I can't wait for you to hear about Greg and his story because he is the culture of all culture coaches. And you are going to love this episode because of the things that he has done and the things you can take away, not only as a coach, but as a family, as a runner, you are absolutely going to love this session. So Greg, thanks so much for joining us today.
Greg Coplen (00:52)
You bet, man. Thanks for having me. It's good to see your face.
Episode 15 (00:55)
Always good to see your face. Uh, man, what a ride you've been on and what a cool experience that you've been through, but one of the things that you do better than anybody else is really building something from the ground up. You can take something from nothing and, and turn it into an absolute dynamite powerhouse and I want to start.
with just the beginning parts of that, which is building that culture from the ground up. And I'd love to hear about why culture is so important to you or why is that the, the staple of what you do.
Greg Coplen (01:34)
Sure. You know, like you and I actually worked together for 10 years, you know, and so you actually saw like every bit of a program being built and you saw the places where it came up against tough times. You saw the times where it was things were just flowing smoothly and just building and building and
Um, and so, you know, I'm, I'm grateful that even as we sit here and talk, like, we've got to walk through these things together, you know? Um, and so I'm, I'm thankful for that. And I think for me, when I think about culture, um, and again, I took a semester off of coaching fall of 2022, you know, so I kind of had that summer and that fall off, I'd coached for 11 years, leading up to that. And then I started coaching again, January of 2023.
And I think during that time, I really sat and had a lot of maybe introspection on, you know, what, what is culture to me, you know, like, why does it matter? And quite honestly, is it exactly what I even thought it was? You know, like, I think sometimes we hear the word culture when it comes to an athletic program, and we think in terms of, okay, you've got your team culture. And then you've got your, you know, the way the team performs on the field, you know, or the way it's like, it's almost looked at it as.
It's two different things. And I think one thing that has really stood out to me is I've kind of had time to take a break from coaching and come back in is that every bit of it is culture. It's all culture, the relationships, the work ethic, the competition, the success, the failure, that everything goes into the culture because the way you even respond to the success or the failure, all of those things matter. And I do think it took me.
some time to realize that, to recognize that over time. When I first started coaching, I think just kind of my natural instinct is I form relationships with those who are around me, whether that's the athletes I coach, whether that's the parents, whether it's the other coaches, whether it's coaches from other teams, kids from other teams, like it's just, I'm about relationships. And to me, that's where culture kind of starts.
Episode 15 (03:46)
Yeah, let's, let's actually stop right there because you make a really important point there of the people who are around you are the people who you're going to build culture into. So for a student athlete, what do you tell them? Like as a coach, how do you get them to understand whether you're the least of these or the most of these? I want you there no matter what.
Greg Coplen (04:08)
Yeah, I think as a kid comes in and I'll use my sport specifically, right? You know, I mean, cross country and then, you know, distance, mid distance and track. So you know, kind of the way that my season progresses is we start cross country training about, you know, first, second week of June, right? I mean, and summer training is so important. Yeah, for the training benefit, but for the relational benefit.
You know, and so in my world, what's normal is that you have a handful or maybe quite a few of incoming freshmen kids. They're already nervous as can be about going to whatever high school they're going to be going to. They're nervous about coming onto this team. A lot of times you might get kids that come out for cross country that were a no-cut sport, you know, so they know, hey, at least I won't get cut. And so it's like they come out.
And with every one of these kids, again, whether they are like what you were saying, least of these or maybe best of these, you know, I think as they come in, what is valuable. And again, I don't think it's just like some one-on-one conversation the first day of practice. I think that a lot of it has to do with being there every day with those kids, you know.
walking through practices with them five to six mornings a week all summer. I think as they begin to see that, Hey, I'm going to be here to support you and cheer for you and watch you get better. Okay. Um, on those days when you don't want to come to practice, I'm going to be a coach that holds you accountable and you're going to get a text from me, Hey, where were you this morning? And it's not because I'm some dictator type coach.
It's because I know that for you as an individual, whether you're the slowest or fastest kid on the team, for you to reach potential, you need to be at practice. And not just to reach your potential is how fast you can run, but I want you to reach your potential and the type of teammate that you can be. I want you to reach your potential as the type of cheerleader for other kids that you can be. And I want you to be around so that all these other kids can know you and they're gonna be your biggest cheerleaders. And so...
I think the cross-country world, it's kind of one of those sports where the slowest kids get the most playing time, right? They're on the course the longest, and the slowest kids quite often get the loudest cheers. And so it's kind of one of those things that it's like what people want to see when they're at a cross-country meet or a track meet with the distance runners is just flat out effort and tenacity. And so teaching or not teaching these kids, but just helping them.
realize that man like as long as it's your best, you know, then that's good enough. And when you get 40, 50, 70, 80 kids that all realize that my best is good enough, you know, then I think you've got a good foundation for a culture.
Episode 15 (07:04)
Yeah. And you bring up a good point there with your best, not, not putting it up against the best runner in your, in your group of kids that you have that year, but it's your best from potentially yesterday. It might've been your best run yesterday. And we want you to put your best effort again today and see if you can beat that. Talk about how important it is that they self-evaluate and not team evaluate.
Greg Coplen (07:29)
Absolutely. The goal is, you know, to become a better version of yourself, right? 1% better tomorrow than you were today. You know, all those things you've talked about them on your podcast, you know, you've also, you know, use that quote comparison as the thief of joy. And I can tell you that in the distance world, in the competition world on the track or cross country, comparisons are really easy thing because this watch tells you all, you know, my time is either one second or one minute or
five minutes faster or slower than you know this and it tells you exactly what it is. You know and so when we talk about your best, your potential, you know like that's absolutely what we are talking about. You know we're not trying for you as you know runner A to be as fast as runner B. Okay. Now you guys might be helping each other in competition but this is about you.
Okay. Because when you are at your best, you know, you help the team, you know, and, and I think that in my sport, that is a very easy thing to struggle with. Okay. Um, and I, and I think this all kind of goes together when it's talking about your best, your, because again, end of the day in my sport, the watch, the time on the scoreboard, it says everything, you know, you can't hide.
on the track, you can't hide on a cross country course. If you're having a bad day, everybody sees it. If you're having a great day, everybody sees it. And when that time gets uploaded to whatever miles flip page or max preps page, that time is right by your name. And if you're looking at that time and then looking at the other runners around it.
That's a pretty dangerous game because all of a sudden my self-worth is being dictated by somebody else's time. My self-worth needs to be dictated on just who I am. My self-worth needs to be dictated on how I do things. And if I'm getting the best out of myself every day, then no matter how fast or slow that time on the watch may be...
As long as it's about me being better than I was yesterday and striving to be better tomorrow, okay, then I'm in a really good place from an identity standpoint, you know.
Episode 15 (09:52)
Yeah. And I think you kind of hit on something there, which is identity crisis can strike far too often, not just in your sport. I know you keep saying that, but I mean, this is something that everybody fights. And I think in individual sports, even though cross country is a team sport, there's a very high individual activity that goes along with that. But when identity crisis does strike, what are you doing as a coach to combat that?
What are you doing to make sure that they know that they are loved, that they are doing the right thing, stay the course, so that they don't go down that dark winding path that can show up far too often in high school sports?
Greg Coplen (10:33)
Sure. Well, and I think, I mean, I think there's a couple of things on this, right? I do think that there are some Some physical things there's some emotional things relational things I mean at all But like if I see a kid having some self-worth issue identity issue and I see him just kind of start this cycle I mean some things that I'll actually talk about him is hey, what kind of sleep are you getting at night? You know, how much are you on your phone at night? You know, hey, how's your you know, how's your nutrition? Are you are you eating enough? Are you getting the right types of food?
Um, you know, are, are you kind of turning the phone off at night? And I mean, there's a lot of things that I think can strike at our identity just because we don't take care of ourselves physically, you know, if we don't feel good physically, cause we're not doing things to take care of ourselves, then I think that absolutely can affect the emotional, which I think everybody always, you know, thinks, well, emotional has to do with the identity stuff and it does, you know, but I think the physical can be a part of that, but
I think with kids who are struggling with, let's say, an identity crisis, whatever that looks like, I do think it's important to speak truth in those moments. I think that it isn't like we talked about with a kid reaching their own potential, and we talked about the, hey, as long as you're striving to be your best, not somebody else's best, I do think that those...
types of questions are absolutely important in helping a kid like maybe realize why am I having an identity crisis you know I mean I think it can be like hey are you are you giving your best each and every day you know are you showing up with a good attitude you know are you showing up with an attitude of hey leave the negativity at the door and I'm gonna be a good teammate and a hard worker today you know I think that
It's, it is questioning like, hey, how much comparison is actually going on in your life right now? You know, like, I mean, like having kind of those conversations of, you know, hey, when you're feeling this way, I mean, how much of this actually has to do with the way that maybe somebody else on the team is competing? You know, you know, and quite honestly, I mean, it's, hey, how are things going at home? You know, how are things going with your parents, with your siblings? I mean,
Hey, you've, you've seemed a little down at practice the last week, man. Like, is there a breakup that's happened? You know, are you, are you kind of at odds with friends? Like to me, when it gets to that identity thing, that very often is not just about this, it's about everything else going on around them. And then all of those things start impacting what's going on here. I mean, these are high school kids, man. Like I, I don't know that there's a tougher time in life.
than those freshmen through 12th. Well, I don't know, maybe middle school years are even tougher, but you know, like, that is a tough time. And these kids have a lot being thrown at them. You know, so identity crisis, self-worth crisis, man, those may be coming from 50 different places. I do think it's important. I will say one thing that is very valuable to me as a coach, I try to get a touch with every kid on the team every day of practice.
Episode 15 (13:24)
Yeah.
Greg Coplen (13:48)
Even if it's just, you know, fist bump, how you doing today, fist bump at the end of practice, that was a great workout, whatever it is, at least one touch with every kid on that team every single day. Because I think when that happens day after day, they are far more likely to win those identity crises hit, you know, to kind of come to you and say like, hey coach, man, this is going on at home, or this is going on at school, or whatever that may be.
Episode 15 (14:16)
And yeah, I think you nailed it. If you're doing it one time per day, they're never going to question whether or not coach sees you. Coach recognizes your efforts. They always know that you're caring for them some way, somehow. I want to go backwards because I do know your journey a little bit. And you know, before we even get to practices, I want to go back to summer workouts and you do something during summer workouts that
Greg Coplen (14:38)
Yep.
Thank you.
Episode 15 (14:41)
tie into the fact that you're fist bumping somebody every single day. And I don't know if you're still doing it or not, but you used to do a pancake breakfast during your week. Your week runs during the summertime. You still do those now?
Greg Coplen (14:54)
It's a little harder for me to host those at home because I live in Castle Rock now. When I, you know, for 10 years we lived, you know, 10 minutes down the road from the school where I coached, you know, and so we would host those a lot. What we do is probably with my current team is we try to have more in the way of we might have a family host a team breakfast, you know. We do a lot of like, you know, maybe.
popsicle chocolate milk after practice type thing. And maybe we're just sitting out on the practice field talking. Um, you know, we, there's probably more impromptu like, Hey everybody, let's go to, you know, Jamba juice or berry blends after practice, or let's go to I hop or, you know, and so, so there's a lot of those things, but the relational like, right. The rel, that's where the relational equity really starts being built is, is in those times. And again, for those incoming freshmen, I mean, think about how.
important that is, how valuable that is in their life when they've got a junior or a senior student who are actually saying, hey, I can give you a ride to Starbucks after this or to John Bajoush. Hey, like those upperclassmen letting those parents know like, hey, we're going to take care of your kids. I mean, some of those kids coming in, okay, and again, I do talk about cross-country track, but this is in a lot of sports, okay?
Some of these kids are coming in scared to death and all they want is just one person to like see them. You know, I had, I heard a coach say this many years ago. He was like, you know, I've got a lot of kids on my team that if they didn't have this team, they're a kid who's probably going to get stuffed in a locker, you know, at some bullies school, but they have found this team. They found their relationships. And a lot of times even talking to parents, you know, that first, because I will.
Episode 15 (16:28)
Yeah.
Greg Coplen (16:36)
Freshman parents will drop their kids off. They're kind of hanging around like saying, well, hey, what, you know, and like, I very often am saying like, just so you know, if they're here in a part of this all summer, they're gonna walk into that first day of school with 50 brand new friends before they ever step foot in the hallway. You know, and so those moments of the team runs and all that together in the summer, yeah, they're really important.
But I think just as important as what's taking place after those team runs. And so whereas it doesn't necessarily look like what I would have done for 10 years at school A, it's still very much the same vision, just played out in different ways now.
Episode 15 (17:19)
Totally. And that it's so important. You know, they also have a coach that cares about them day one when they step into school as well. So it
Greg Coplen (17:28)
And coaches, and I will say that that's, that is absolutely, um, sorry to interrupt you, but, but that is, you know, I have always believed in having a big staff, you know, like I, you know, when school, I mean, I, I think I had 11 assistant coaches at, at one point, you know, and, and some of them could only maybe be there two, three days a week, you know, I mean, most of them were volunteer type coaches, you know.
Episode 15 (17:33)
You're good.
Greg Coplen (17:56)
But what was really valuable is that these kids were saying, man, there are adults that care about me. And sometimes the conversations, like I would say, hey, would you be interested in being an assistant coach with me? And they're like, I don't know that much about running. I'm like, do you love kids? Can you be here and consistent? And is this something where you can build into a kid's life? And if they're like, yes, and I'm like, then we'll teach you what you need to know about distance running and training. And so that's been something, even at Chaparral now.
Um, you know, we're up to going into the summer. It'll be me for assistant coaches, you know, and trying to even bring a couple of more, even kids that used to run for me, you know, that are going to kind of come out in the summer and just be, you know, kind of college age examples in these kids' lives. I think it's incredibly value, valuable for these kids to see, man, there are adults that absolutely care about me.
Episode 15 (18:50)
to great point. The head coach can't do it on its own. And that's a good note for all head coaches of if you're trying to do it on your own, you're gonna fail. You can only have so many conversations. There's so many hours in the day and to allow other coaches, whether your staff is big or small, to be able to speak into those kids of that program and show their care. Now it feels like a community of people that are surrounding them
Greg Coplen (19:15)
So, I'm going to go ahead and start the presentation. So, I'm going to start with the presentation.
Episode 15 (19:20)
an individual coach surrounding them and trying to care for them appropriately. Really well said, Greg. Um, I also want to bring up the fact that because of this summer training that you're doing, it can go good or bad, right? Like, so kids stop showing up, you start holding them accountable and they think it's because you care for them as just a runner, I need you to be your very best. And if you're not doing these, you're not going to be your very best. And it feels like a burden of.
He just wants me because he wants to win. But in actuality, what you're trying to do is build a culture, care for kids and help them understand how to reach their maximum potential. talk me through that a little bit. Have you seen the negative side of that as well as the positive side?
Greg Coplen (20:07)
Yeah, I mean, I think there can be negative on it. Let me think how I would actually look at that, you know, with a kid. I definitely think there could be that mindset. What I would say I probably see more and more is
What I probably want to call out of a kid, you know, maybe if they're being a little inconsistent is, I don't know how many times, you know, I've had a kid who's like, well, he just wants me, you know, because he's trying to, you know, win or have me run a time. Maybe they feel like that a little bit internally. I think for the most part, it's that what I'm trying to call out is complacency, right? I'm trying to call out apathy.
And I think that a lot of times we live in a world that doesn't get called out a whole lot. You know, I think there's probably certain aspects of our lives where that gets called out. But I think in the majority of our lives, it doesn't get called out. You know, I mean, I can speak even for me personally, you know, if I want to hide in my room on a weekend and Netflix binge for three hours, who's going to call that out other than my wife?
Episode 15 (21:14)
That's right. That's right.
Greg Coplen (21:16)
And so I think there's a lot of like apathy and complacency in our lives that doesn't get called out. And I think we live in a world where it becomes easier and easier to hide. And so I think as, as kids come in, especially if they're not accustomed to youth sports, you know, um, like, man, somebody saying like, Hey, listen, I need you to be here, you know? And maybe they even say, what's not mandatory for me to be there every day in the summer, you know, those, that's not the state rules or whatever.
And I mean, my conversation is very often, I'm not talking about mandatory or non-mandatory. You know, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. I'm talking about things that allow you to reach your potential. And this is where I think that I, because from the outside, the danger that I see is, okay, let's say we have a kid who instead of five to six days a week, you know, starting at the beginning of summer, they're there two to three days a week, maybe two days a week.
As the weeks progress and as the months progress, they're watching these teammates that have been there each and every day get better and better and they stay healthier and healthier because they're consistent. And maybe this kid, you know, who's they really haven't committed to it, you know, they are apathetic in nature. And so they're one to two to three days a week and they kind of stay that way. Well, I'm not getting any better. Oh, and all of a sudden, you know, I've got this injury, you know.
And all of a sudden it's easy to like justify, I think in that kid's mind, well then I don't need to go more because I just get hurt when I go or I'm not getting faster when I do go. And it's like, listen, I understand why you're thinking the way you are, you know? But here's the thing, you're thinking this way because you're looking at this through the wrong lens. You know, you're looking through the lens of what you can get by with, what you can get away with.
other than the lens of what am I actually capable of? And I'm not talking about times, we're not talking about times, what we're talking about is commitment. Commitment to being here because it's what we've committed to do together as a team. Commitment to being here because my teammates are here. Commitment to being here because like I said, we've got six assistant coaches who show up for really no pay, just to come be here with you. And so...
I don't know that I have those experiences with kids where maybe every once in a while where they think, oh, he just wants me to be fast. You know, he just wants this time. I think it's more often if they're going to be frustrated, it's because I don't like having this complacency called out of me. And they wouldn't call it complacency, you know, but I don't like having this called out of me, you know. And so I'll just...
Episode 15 (23:59)
Of course not.
Greg Coplen (24:05)
stay in what I know and what's comfortable.
Episode 15 (24:07)
Yeah, that's a good point. I think, uh, I, I've never really thought about it from that standpoint, but it's a, it's a really good thing to say. Cause complacency is overtaking this world. It's overtaking sports. And, uh, I think at the end of the day, we need to be, have a mindset eyes to see ears to hear when complacency starting to sneak in and, um, that, that will absolutely creep in and you'll want to hide in a dungeon and
When somebody calls you out, you'll want to go deeper into that dungeon, not come out and have a conversation about it. So that.
Greg Coplen (24:37)
Yup. And I've been there as a human being myself. So, you know, like, right? So I get it. Yup.
Episode 15 (24:43)
No doubt. Yeah, and we all have. We all have. I don't think anybody would say they haven't been called out and not enjoyed that moment. That's for sure.
Greg Coplen (24:54)
Dude, you probably called me out back in the day at some point and I'm like, AHHHHH
Episode 15 (24:57)
Yeah, probably. And I, and you've probably called me out to be honest with you. So that's the way the world goes around. I suppose let's, uh, let's continue in the journey though, with you a little bit. We, you know, what I got to see from you was taking a program that literally had runners that were very inexperienced to a team where
people wanted to fly in from around the country to be a part of Greg Copeland's program. My, my question is what, what switched? What, what was that moment in time? Because it wasn't like a Greg Copeland came in year one and year two, everyone wanted to be a part of Greg Copeland's program. It was a, it was a slow methodical thing that occurred over time. And I'm curious your perspective. Of.
Greg Coplen (25:39)
Thanks.
Episode 15 (25:48)
what transpired to get it to where it was.
Greg Coplen (25:51)
Sure. I look back on those kind of eight years from 2012 to 2019, 20, you know? Because that 2019 and 20 school year is very important because 20 is when COVID hit. And when COVID hit, it hit in that program at the time when our program had really
reached, I mean like a massive amount of success. And it was, and when I say this, I'm talking about success that had been built on the backs of every kid that had started with us in 2012, you know? And so I think things transitioned a little bit after COVID. That's when people started, you know, really coming in.
But so when I look about kind of the building process, I look at about an eight year run, right? And what I loved about that eight year run is that almost every bit of that was built on the kids that had, I mean, with everything else we've talked about already, right? These were the kids that bought into the culture, to the consistency, to the belief in who we were gonna
be, you know, and I will say as part of the culture, what I have always found really, really important as a coach is to be able to look a kid in the eye and say, listen, this is what I believe about you. You are capable of so much more than what you think you are. You know, and what I realized over years is that when I did that, as I did that, and I showed up with that kid every day.
they begin to believe those things about themselves. It wasn't always perfect. There was a little bit of this kind of up and down, but it was, hey, reminding that kid again and again, this is what you were capable of being on the track, off the track. And so when I look at those years, I think that quite honestly, that's where it starts, right? Is those 15 kids, I mean, my first day of practice in 2012, I think we had six.
kids, you know, and that was like they knew that the new coach was going to be there that day. That's how many kids we had show up with six, maybe eight kids. So I'm like looking around going, man, do we even have enough to like make a scoring team right now, you know? And so when I look back at kind of year one, I think that kids realize that, okay, hey, this is a coach coming in that won. He's going to show up every day.
And he is going to do his best to walk alongside me and help me grow as a runner, as a human being. We talked about lots of things that had nothing to do with running early on. And I think kids recognized early on that, Coach Copeland wants to get to know me as a person. He cares about who I am. He doesn't just care about my times or how I'm doing.
You know, so year one, we had a girls team that we were, that's when we were class four A and our girls team that year was, I think we were 11th out of 13 teams and probably what was the weakest even four A region. We didn't have one girl who I think even broke 21 minutes into five K and I, you know, like for those who were listening who we were not good. Okay. I'll just say that. We were not a good team.
Episode 15 (29:14)
Thank you.
Yeah.
Greg Coplen (29:25)
had a guys team that was a little more experienced, very senior heavy, and it was like a bunch of seniors and then a bunch of freshmen, sophomores. But kind of coming in that year, what it was over time was just for me, it was a commitment to myself that, hey, I'm going to give these kids everything that I've got 46 weeks out of the year. Okay, I'm gonna ask these kids to give me and each other everything that they've got 46 weeks out of the year.
We're going to commit to off season training. We're going to commit for those cross country runners who don't like running track. Well, guess what? Okay. We're going to run track. Okay. Um, cause we're talking about some competitive things at this point, right? These are things that absolutely matter in your growth as a team. Year two, um, that girls team went from 11th to seventh in the region, same exact group of girls. And so you started really seeing, and then it was year three that girls team. You know,
ends up going to state for the first time. And we went to state every year after that. And what was so beautiful about that team that went to state and ends up finishing 11th in the state, in a really good state for cross country running. But every, I mean, that team, every kid on that team had a story that was absolutely monumental in the life of that team.
what those kids had overcome, what they pushed through. We had a girl on that team who was our number two runner that year, who, I mean, she had been a 12 minute miler. Like she couldn't run a mile faster than 12 minutes. And she ends up being a kid who was our number two runner. And then ends up, by the time she's a senior running a low five mile, she goes off and runs at University of Tulsa for four years. And when I say that is that those eight years were full of stories like that. Just...
one after another after another. The varsity team was always made up of kids who when they first came out for the team, they probably walked in the back of the pack. They had no belief that they could really be anything. And again, we had some really incredibly talented runners during those years as well. I mean, Cole, I mean, you look at a kid like Cole Sprout, like, you know, but the thing that just stood out to me about Cole was-
just the belief he had in the culture around him, the kids around him, the love that he had for running and the team. And it was a kid that just trusted still, as good as he was, you know? I mean, because even at that time, him compared to even anybody else on our team, even as much as we had grown, huge talent separation, you know? Huge, I mean, he was just beyond anything that was even in the state.
Best runner in the state, one of the best runners in the country, but he was a kid that showed up every day. He believed in what we were doing. And it was those types of things where it was like, man, that was the beauty of that is that everybody bought in to what we were doing. And those conversations just ended up being, I started having those conversations with incoming freshmen. Listen, I want to tell you a story about this kid that two years ago was in the same position as you.
And we would just watch those stories happen every single year, of just kid coming in and somebody believing in them, them putting the work in. And by the time we hit 2019, man, things were just rolling. And there was a culmination to that. The state track meet in 2019, we'd moved up to 5A by this point. Our girls, 4 by 800, Wednesday.
Every kid on that team was developed in our program. And that included Ashley Jones, who only had even one arm. You know, like, I mean, every kid on that four by 800 state championship team, they had a story. They had a reason for why they were there. We won state four by eight, we won state girls 3,200. We won state, you know, boys 1,600, 800. I mean, it was like a culminating, you know, kind of day in the life of our program.
And it was probably right after that time that all of a sudden you start seeing kids like, I want to go be a part of this. Yeah.
Episode 15 (33:38)
Yeah. That what you just said encompasses everything that I wanted to get out of my podcast. Like truly coaches, if you are listening, every kid has a story and this coach right here knows those stories about their kids. That is so incredibly important when it comes to building a program.
Greg Coplen (33:44)
Hehehe
Episode 15 (33:58)
You know, we can't think about it as a one year journey. We can't think about it with the kids that are just right in front of us. We have to think about it as a lifelong journey. I guarantee that Greg, and we'll ask this question in just a second here, but I guarantee he's been asked to be a part of weddings, go to weddings. I don't know if first children have been born yet or anything like that, but I'm sure that's coming up.
But because of the investment that Greg put into his program, into his athletes, those athletes then cared for one another. And what he said earlier, and I wish I had a replay button because I'd hit it right now, he said it was put on the backs of everybody who had ran prior to the highest pinnacle of success that they had had. It wasn't that one day everybody showed up and they were great runners. It was that the stories kept getting told.
Greg Coplen (34:45)
So, I'm going to go ahead and start the presentation. presentation of the
Episode 15 (34:49)
year over year and the athletes started getting better and better because of the belief in the system that was in place. And then the coaches continued to pour in appropriately in order for them to get where they wanted to go. You know, if you're going to get maximum potential, you got to have a coach that's going to vision cast that and then help you execute that along the way. So I just hope coaches hear that clearly of it's not day one day one. You're not going to walk in and just have this.
Pinnacle program because you're a good coach. It takes time. It takes investment I think he said 48 weeks out of the year. Is that what you said 48 weeks out of the year? Unbelievable unbelievable and coaches if you don't hear that and I get not every sport runs 48 weeks out of the year But you can be doing something You can be working with your athletes. You can be checking in with your athletes. You might not even be working out
Greg Coplen (35:25)
46 to 48 weeks out of the year. Yeah.
Episode 15 (35:43)
but there's still time to care for them during those weeks that you're working with them and you're a part of their lives. But to go back to the question I was about to ask coach Copeland, have you been a part of their life afterwards?
Greg Coplen (35:58)
Yeah, it's funny you brought up weddings. So back in January, I officiated the wedding of a girl that I coached a few years ago. Yeah, I mean, you know, weddings and I mean, I mean, just for, hey, I'm going to be up in, you know, Boulder this week. And it's a kid who's maybe in college up there or maybe they've started their professional lives and it's like, sit down, grab coffee. And again, I know tons of coaches who have that type of interaction with their
In fact, those are the coaches that I've learned to respect the most over time, because that's when you can really tell this isn't just about your time. This isn't just about your performance on the football field or the basketball court. When I see those coaches that have those long-term relationships, and there's a lot of them, I promise you, that have those long-term relationships with kids, those are the ones that I develop the most respect for and probably become my...
go to coaches when I've got a question about something. If I'm struggling with something, if I'm in a phase of maybe kind of feeling a little burned out or just beaten down, those are the types of coaches that I reach out to. But one thing that I was even gonna follow up on with what, one of the things that was so incredible about kind of those 2017 through 2019 years and...
And again, man, it was just, I look back at it and everybody's got their COVID story, right? We all lost so much during that spring of 2020 and after, but that was one of the saddest things for me was that COVID spring is that every one of those kids that had done so much in 2019, they were all back for that 2020 year. You know? I mean, Cole missed his opportunity to break the state record in the 16, the 3200.
You know, Taylor Whitfield missed her opportunity to repeat as a state. You know, it just, we lost so much. But what I was gonna say is that what was so incredibly special about kind of that 2017 through 2019 seasons is that because I knew those kids so well, I mean, I had great relationships with those kids, with their parents. I mean, we were close. I mean, these were families like I was close with, my wife was close with. Watching them.
succeed. Watching them win, you know, when you know a kid's story and when you've battled with them for three, four, five, six years, the joy as a coach of watching them do what they do. I mean, I can promise you, you know, I don't feel bad about this at all. I promise you I have shed tears at state cross country meets at state track meets.
I've shed tears when I even think about some of those meets, you know, years after. Those are kids, I mean, I just traded texts with three kids this morning, kids that I used to coach, you know, that, that again, I've walked through life with and in many capacities, you know, and we talk about lots of different things, but I think that like again for any coach who's out there, the joy and privilege it is to watch a kid reach their potential.
that you've gotten to walk with and you know you have absolutely poured your life into for four years, that is an incredible moment.
Episode 15 (39:16)
And no matter if they're a state finisher or a JV runner by the end, if they've hit their potential, it matters.
Greg Coplen (39:24)
Some of my favorite stories are the girl who broke 25 minutes in the 5K. I mean, at the end of her senior year. The boy in track season who had never broken six minutes in a mile. And he stayed on the team for four years. He was never a varsity runner, but he breaks six minutes in the mile. Finally his senior year. I mean, those quite honestly.
Those may be even more enjoyable stories than the state champions, you know, and all of that. Because that kid knows, like, they're not going after a state championship, you know. That kid just knows, I'm just trying to get the best out of myself and just enjoy being a part of this team. I had talked with Jonathan Dalby from Vista on my podcast, like, two weeks ago, and that was one of the things we talked about.
was just the absolute joy in watching like your JV kids who were never ever, no matter how hard they worked, they're never going to be a varsity runner. But watching them accomplish something that they've set as a goal for four years, that is one of the most beautiful things there is, you know.
Episode 15 (40:30)
Yeah. And I think it's a missing point far too often. Like I think coaches are so focused on being the very best with their varsity team that they miss out on all the joyous stories that are occurring around them because they're, they're anxious, they're worried, they're nervous about not being the best in the state again, or living up to the reputation that the school might hold or whatever that might be. And man.
Greg Coplen (40:57)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm
Episode 15 (40:57)
We got to open the bubble a little bit and go, it's not just about this team. If I asked you to just be the varsity coach, that's one thing, but you're a program manager. Your job is to oversee all the kids, whether it's 20 on your team or 150 on your team, you're entrusted to all of those, not just your top four runners or whatever that might be. So I think that's really important. And you can see that in both of your guys's programs. You know, you look at both Vista.
Greg Coplen (41:24)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm
Episode 15 (41:26)
and shop right now and there is care. There are people always around there. They're there. They're supporting, they're wearing the gear. The kids are always together. Um, when you see runs with those teams, there's a hundred of them running all together, like there's just a culture that is built because every person mattered from the very beginning. What, one thing I wanted to go along with that, sorry, I wanted to be able to say.
One of the things that you did really well, and I'm not sure if you still do it today or not, was you would run with your athletes. It was like, I'm not doing, I'm not asking you to do this journey by yourself. I'm going to do it with you. I don't know what just happened, but that's a weird thing in the background.
Greg Coplen (42:07)
Dude, the podcast is celebrating the point that you just made. Fireworks when we talked about running with the kids.
Episode 15 (42:12)
I must have really hit something good there.
They must have loved that. I don't know what that was, but Coach, are you still running with your team today?
Greg Coplen (42:25)
I do look a little bit slower. You know, when I, when I started, you know, like coaching back in 2011, 12, yeah, I'd run with the fast faster boys on the team, you know, sometimes. And then it kind of got to where, and again, the kids have gotten faster through the years, then it was like, okay, I can pace the faster girls crew. And now I just kind of like, all right, you guys go do your workout. I'm running behind you, you know, but I will say that it is more, it, there is a lot of really cool things about running with the kids, you know,
And that is one of the things when I talked about bringing on a large staff, I want those adults out there, you know, running with the kids. If we've got adults that aren't capable of, you know, running very fast. And I'm like, great. You see these kids right here. They don't run very fast either. Okay. And they need somebody with them, you know? So I just, again, I think that time, you know, there's something about distance running, you know, where, I mean, most of it's not like sexy training, right? You know,
I mean, it's not like we're always working drills and dynamics. We're not always, you know, not, it's not like out on the football field or basketball where there's just almost nonstop teaching, right? Some of the times these kids are out for just 45 to 60 minutes. It's just like, hey, just go run. This is what I want you to focus on. But man, those times, like, that's the, especially for newer runners.
The only enjoyable part about that is the fact that they're doing it with somebody else. Nobody just shows up and wants to go run five miles on day one, you know, especially if they've never done this before. And so it's like, wait, so I've got somebody to do this with me, you know, and you'll see those little groups start to form relationships. And then when you combine a coach with that, you know, like just again, the, the relational piece, it's incredibly valuable. So whether it's.
me running with the kids or the other coaches on the team. I think that some of the most meaningful conversations I've had with a kid or a group of kids have taken place when we're just out, you know, running 10 miles together. You know?
Episode 15 (44:29)
Yep. Yeah. I think that grind is so important because you saying that you're going to be there every day is one thing. You doing the actions with them is a whole different story. That that's a level of understanding that kids can get on, get on board with and buy into and, and love you for it. Like he, he's sweating with us.
Greg Coplen (44:52)
And I promise you, I promise you that goes a long way with those kids. And I want to follow up with a comment because I don't know if we'll get back to this. And, you know, so this may be one of those things where it's like if you can edit this and put it in somewhere. But you said something earlier when you talked about kids coming into a program and maybe trying to, you know, thinking I've got to live up, you know, to the reputation of this school or this program or.
And you had touched on that and it just sparked something in my mind. I think one of the most important things, maybe the most important thing for the culture of a team is helping those kids understand that, listen, what you were walking into, what you were becoming a part of, whether you are a freshman, whether you're a transfer, whether you're a moving, whoever you are, okay? What you see of this thing, okay?
What you see of the character of this program, the culture, it all started, you know, back in this time. And everything that you see about the success in the culture, it's here because year after year, group after group of kids built in to make this stronger and stronger and stronger. Okay? The culture of this program, it's not...
the success of the program. Yes, you may get success with this program and this program may continue to be successful, okay? But that's not the culture of this. The culture of this great program, whatever great program it is, it is here because everybody believed in every facet of it. And they strive to be a person that made that culture even better and stronger.
And I just think that is so valuable as a program, but also as a coach, like right, there's that quote that we become what we allow. And if you ever start strained as a coach away from what made this thing great to begin with, and you start allowing things to infiltrate that, which may not have been a part of how this thing was developed.
then you better get ready for a rough ride. And I promise you, I have done that as a coach, you know, where it's just like you forget about everything that made this great, and you just expect everything will just continue to be great, and you kind of forget that year after year, month after month, day after day, the amount of work that went into making this beautiful by myself, by my assistant coaches, and by every kid on this team. Every bit of that made this what it is today.
And if you want this to be even better three years from now, five years from now, then you better make sure that all of those things that this team and this coaching staff believed in, they have to stay. It has to be part of it. You know, yes, adapt or die. You got to adapt and you got to be ready for changes, you know, but if these things that were so core in building this to, you know, if those things begin to disappear, then, then get ready for that culture that you've known to disappear along with it.
You know.
Episode 15 (48:06)
Yeah. Mission Drift's a real thing. And when you think about it as culture, that's the exact same thing. It would be a culture drift and that is something that is real. Um, yeah. And that quote that you're talking about, you're either coaching it or you're allowing it to happen. And, and that, I think I've said it on my podcast before, but that is such a dangerous line that you walk, especially when you're dealing with good athletes and not the same type of athlete after that is
You can allow those athletes to get away with things at times and that can break your culture that quickly and you need to be very careful of those things.
Greg Coplen (48:43)
And I think even with that, Brian, like, and some of it is very, I think it's well-meaning, right? I think as, I think for the most part as head coaches, I think we're
I hope we are, we're always well-meaning in what we're doing. You know, we're always well-meaning. We always want to be about the kid, the kids, you know, but sometimes I think in our, you know, being gracious and well-meaning and, and again, like just in my own life, I can look at tons of mistakes I've made as a coach that probably I was very well-meaning in what I was trying to do.
You know, but what you don't know, you don't know. You know? And it's like, man, if we become what we allow, then I allowed these things. You know, and you're paying the price now. No matter how well-meaning, you know, you may have been as a coach, you know, and if you allow what's not been there, and if you allow what's not been there.
and you see that it's something that's not beneficial and then you keep allowing it, I mean, where's the responsibility at that point? Just right here, you know? And so again, it's some of the beauty of just learning from our mistakes. If we're learning from our mistakes, you know, then heck yeah, we're gonna have, you know, a good 10, 20, 30 years of being a coach. If I'm not learning from, and I just keep trying to have things my way, I'm probably out of this thing, you know, pretty quickly, so.
Episode 15 (50:12)
Yeah, the growth mindset of coaches is so critical. If you're still coaching the way you were back in 2012, uh, you've probably fallen off a little bit, but instead you've added things you've learned what's worked and what hasn't you've added regiments. You've added, um, metrics along the way and your relationship ability has grown and you've found new ways to connect with kids and, but if you're standing still and you found that one year of success and you're going to live and die by that.
you are going to not enjoy this sport for much longer. You're gonna find out that you're falling behind faster than ever before. Yeah, so that is always a good point for coaches. You know, they say leaders are readers. And with that, the same thing applies of understanding when you fall, understanding when you succeed, those things need to be acknowledged and put into a bank, but then it also needs to be pulled out and you need to be able to say,
Greg Coplen (50:49)
Yep.
Episode 15 (51:09)
How can I learn from this? What can I do to get better? So on and so forth. Coach Copeland, let me finish with this today. I would love for you to give a thought to our coaches out there. One thing that they could walk away with and one thing for parents to walk away with as they enter the high school scene.
Greg Coplen (51:13)
the
Sure.
Golly, you're gonna make me think on this one. If I was to give a point, like, you know, if I'm just sitting down with a group of coaches and there's one thing that I'd love for them to walk away with based on my, you know, I guess 13 years of doing this now, you know, if there was one thing that I would want coaches to walk away from what I've learned through the years.
Don't ever stop loving those kids. You know, I promise you as coaches, there's gonna be this at times. And if this leads to this, you know, then I think that this becoming this starts becoming easier and easier for us to justify. You know, I promise you that coaches and athletes, there's gonna be this at times. And it...
It will not always end pretty with every kid you've coached. You know, but I think, you know, for me, it's like as a head coach, what I hope is that who I've been, you know, as just a human being, as a coach, as a friend, the example that I've set with all the kids that I've coached, what I hope is that 10, 20, 30 years down the line that has impact.
on the kid that I've coached. You know, just bottom line, you know, if we stop loving those kids, if we stop pursuing those kids, you know, then what kind of example am I ultimately going to leave them? You know, so again, I don't know, that may sound as trite and cliche as possible, but I just, I think at the end of the day,
Episode 15 (53:03)
Yeah.
No.
Greg Coplen (53:13)
If I stop loving or caring about a kid, once I've gotten out of them, what I want to get out of them, you know, and they go on, they'll realize pretty quickly that, oh, well, that's just all show, you know? But if those kids and you and me are constantly in interaction and I'm checking in with them, hey, you know, how's school going? How's whatever? Man, that just, that's the stuff that's going to be.
That's the stuff that's going to end up changing their own little worlds, you know? And when you're having such a positive impact in kids' lives that as they grow, their world is being positively impacted because of the example that you set, that changes a whole lot of worlds, you know? So...
Episode 15 (53:52)
That is leaving a legacy. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what we should be here to do is leave a legacy. So then they want to leave their own legacy. And that's great coaching. That really is. And you can forget about wins and losses in that moment. And you can just focus on what do I want these kids to remember when they step out of my program. And if all it is a ring, if all it is a trophy, we missed it. We missed it. And so.
That's really well said. How about one thing for the parents and then we'll call it good.
Greg Coplen (54:22)
Yeah. Yeah, I think as parents coming in, you know, one thing I would say is, and that's, that's a tough thing, right? As parents are coming into a program, you know, and it's like, okay, here's my.
Here's my kid that I've raised for 13, 14 years now. And I'm kind of handing them off in a way for two hours a day. Is this coach gonna, man, are they gonna be a high character leader for my kids? Are they gonna help them get better? I mean, I think as kids come in, as parents bring them in, they come in with lots of different reasons for being there, right? And so I think that maybe some...
If I were to say to parents coming in is one, hey, be willing to kind of come in open handed, right? Just open handed, a little bit of surrendered. You know, if we're doing this and just trying to control everything about our kids' high school experience, whether it's, and believe it, I've had three kids, okay? So I know how all this goes and I've been this person, you know, just trying to control everything. But I think that if I can come in as a parent...
and I can be open-handed and surrendered, and I can believe the best about the coaches who are going to be coaching my children. If I can start with that, believe the best, okay? Then that's gonna go a long way into you having a great experience as a parent and your kids having a great experience. If I come in with a distrust, with a fear, with a, it's, I don't know how well that's gonna go.
And if it doesn't go well for us as a parent, and that's something that my kid sees, probably not gonna go real well for the kid either. But if the kid sees you surrendering, believing the best, and just kind of being open-handed, then I think as parents and kids, we're far more likely to have a great relationship and a great experience in this thing.
Episode 15 (56:25)
It's really well said. And I think we can all take a lesson in that, not just incoming eighth grade families or anything like that. We can all start from a place of trust and then as trust erodes, go fix the problem. Go fix the problem, be honest and come from a loving place as you assert yourself. But man, if we came from a place of understanding, trust, value,
Greg Coplen (56:39)
Yeah.
Episode 15 (56:51)
I think a lot more conversations would go a lot easier along the way. Coach Copeland, I can't thank you enough for being on the show today. Um, it is always a pleasure to catch up with you. It's always a pleasure to hear how you are impacting your culture, impacting your students and all that you do, um, to better the cross country world here in Colorado. So thank you so much.
Greg Coplen (56:55)
Yeah.
You bet, brother. Thanks for having me on. Thanks, I mean, just for the invite. And yeah, man, it was just good to sit and talk with you for a bit.
Episode 15 (57:22)
Always is. Uh, you have just listened to the next edition of Unleashed with Brian Bonn, um, until next time, share this out, share it. Uh, let's get the word out about coach Copeland and all that he's doing. And, uh, let's continue to learn. And in the meantime, go do the work.
